other threads to unravel

[ThomasCardin]

open if you dare

First thread to unravel:
There is something strange about the nursery. The right to have children is won in a lottery right? The lottery is held only when someone dies so there is a check in place against population explosions, I got that. This implies that there are not many babies at one time, unless it is nine months after a sudden rash of deaths.

When Marnes and Jahns go to the nursery to visit Jules father it is darkened, they don't actually see or hear babies but it is implied that they are there...otherwise they wouldn't have to keep their voices down.

I can't put my finger on it but there is something odd about the running of the nursery, odd about the lottery, etc. No crying babies, no delivering mothers, no expectant fathers sweating bullets...just lots of darkness and silence.

I am going to put forth right now that there was a reason other than simple biology that Holston and his wife were unsuccessful at making babies. I am also going to throw out there that the babies aren't completely unmodified and natural.

Second thread to unravel:
What are the servers doing? There is a LOT of computing power running all the time, all silos have deadicated backup power to their servers from silo 1, so its important, whatever they are gronking away on. What is it being used for? Current cell phones can superimpose graphics on top of live video right now so its not all used to cleaner wool. A couple laptops could handle the email demands of an entire silo so its not that either. Note that these server towers were built almost 50 years in advance of where we are now, and during a time when nanotechnology is actualized. This spells phenominal computing power compared to what we have now, well in to proposed requirements for Artificial Intelligence.

Again I am going to put forth that those towers are being used for genetics...not to make three armed people or to make pet miniature giraffes...no they are working on fundamental alterations to the human mind, or at least they could be modelling such things virtually.

Some things to think about that I wouldn't put past Hugh.

[Pepperysteve]

Greetings ThomasCardin

Been lurking for a few days getting a general feel for the place.

Pondered your ideas for a while, some things that came to mind for me were:

For those not finished with all stories

First thread-

Did notice the darkness and silence seemed a little out of place. There's no indication yet about what the yearly attrition rate of the population might be, although from "First Shift" it is clear the silos' population hovers about 9000. A 1% birth rate ( a complete guess, mind you) would result in a birth of 1 baby every 4 days. Not exactly a "bustling" pace.
Also noticed the proximity of IT was nearly adjacent to the nursery, only separated by a water treatment facility as best I can tell.

Holston and Allison - Could the birth control implant, that Jules mentions, have been still active in Allison?

Second thread-

One of the aspect of server farms is the need for refrigeration,and that can take a lot of power as well. I keep thinking what Solo/Jimmy metaphoricallly said about the silo being for seed storage. Coupled with Senator Thurman's involvement with Cryonics, makes me suspect that not all of IT is servers, and may be hiding a cryonics facility stored with who knows what. Could explain the need for cross-connected power systems for IT. Eh...just a thought.

Steve

[ThomasCardin]

welcome Pepperysteve!

I certainly wouldn't put the idea of a distribution of hidden cryonics facilities out of the picture...This sounds very plausible, but it doesn't fit well with my idea of a manipulated human race. Any people frozen away during first shift would awaken as normal, unmodified humans, who were still capable of destroying themselves and mankind all over again. Unless we want to work in a method of manipulation while they are frozen (see "safehold" books by David Weber)

Thanks for crunching the numbers on the birthrate, makes me even more suspicious of just what is happening in the nurseries.

[Bob Crosley]

First Shift Spoiler

We already have confirmation of at least 1 cryonics facility, in Silo 1. It's where the main silo workers are kept between shifts, and where the women of silo 1 are kept.

I get that silo 1 is somewhat unique, (they're aware of the other silos, not limited in mobility by stairs like other silos, etc) but it lends credence to the idea of other cryonics facilities.

I suspect the silos could be a veritable petri dish of experimentation, both of the biological kind, but also in social sciences. I could see different versions of the Order, tweaked to try different things in different silos.

But overall, I don't think there are multiple versions of the Order. The folks involved in creating the silos and the Order are technocrats at heart. And technocrats think its possible to put enough smart people in a room to come up with a plan that can solve very complex problems, like economics, society structure, etc. They tend not to doubt their own brilliance, so I think there's one version of the Order.

But they would think they're capable of fixing people, lending credence to Thomas's ideas of genetic manipulation.

Think of the corpsicles as a control group, or a source of 'pure' genetic material.

[ThomasCardin]

Yes! A control group. Now thats just making too much sense. I hope Hugh is sifting through all these ideas with his cap of dastardly deeds on.

[charla.arabie]

Question- kind of on the same subject, but not on the same level intellectually (you guys blow me out the water) -- What do you think happens if the implants for birth control fail and there is an unsanctioned/unplanned pregnancy?

[ThomasCardin]

One possibility:
Well if it is someone that the head of IT likes, someone else that the head of IT does not like might just have to make room.

Other possibility:
The option is just not available. The technology of the implants has been perfected, though it sounds improbable that anything could be so foolproof when mother nature is involved. But for cases of intentional malfunctions, think of what the punishment might be....

[Lisa]

I've pondered many directions in which Hugh can take the Silo story, but genetic manipulation isn't one of them. And somehow, for me, for Hugh to invoke it would seem disingenuous.

Furthermore, I have a hard time believing it, considering the primary actors and what we've been told up until now. Thurman is a politician, not a scientist, and we have not been introduced to any scientists who might be using the silos as experimental Ground Zero. For Hugh to introduce them this late in the game probably would torque me off (and, in my experience, it's not Hugh's style). If we were to discover in subsequent books that Holston and Jules and Lukas (etc.) are something more than what you and I are, wouldn't that risk changing our views of them in fundamental ways that would flip our positive feelings for the series into resentment? Hugh walks many fine lines with his writing, but I don't believe he would (yet--he's only been writing for a few years) risk pissing off his readership. What we love about the WOOL series is its ability to amaze and surprise and frighten us AND remind us about what it means to be human (not the next phase of humanity).

I've often thought abut the issue related to the control of births, and from both sides: If the Silo is at maximum capacity, then what? If there was a contagion or something similar that significantly reduced the population, then what? Note: we are assuming that population control is occurring by interventions that render fertile woman incapable of conceiving (flip side: what if it's the males' fertility that's being affected?). Step back, let's go back to women's fertility and controlling it. How are young female teens being monitored? Are all fertile females affected, regardless if they have a partner? What if a young and newly fertile teen had sex or was raped?

[ThomasCardin]

Good points all Lisa.

I am not suggesting that they are making genetic supermen, that we clearly do not see. The kind of manipulations I am thinking of are far more subtle, on the psychological side of things. An attempt to make a fundamental change in the human condition that would create a society (equally inhuman) of believers. A society which would be incapable of the kind of acts that lead to founding of the silos in the first place. I lean toward this because of Thurman and the great depth of work that was obviously spent by psychologists in creating the book of the order, as well as the very edited history of man that Solo shares with Jules from the library of his silo's hidden IT room. The preservation of humanity in the silos is only half the solution. As I said in my strapline suggestion "The last seeds of humanity are rotting in the dark"

To me that means that nothing has changed yet, the people of the silos are still human monsters capable of atrocious acts upon one another as our own history and news broadcasts show us about ourselves now. Not all of us are this way, certainly, many of us are already believers with faith in mankind to pull through, to do the right thing. Those rotten seeds are still among us though and Hugh illustrates them well.

What this means to me is that Thurman and his psychologists have a plan to "fix" us, what that is is entirely up to Hugh, and I look forward to seeing it play out.

This discussion is for us to germinate upon the seeds he has given us, the hints of visceral data that he's woven through the wool. OMG...you can use that if you want Hugh.

[Rockinruby]

One possibility:
Other possibility:
The option is just not available. The technology of the implants has been perfected, though it sounds improbable that anything could be so foolproof when mother nature is involved. But for cases of intentional malfunctions, think of what the punishment might be....

Mother Nature will out. Reproduction will occur, because that is the prime directive of all living organisms. It's inevitable that she'll win, but it takes time. I'd love to know what they're doing to control births. Did the nanos make internal changes to all silo residents? Or could everyone have been rendered sterile somehow, and winning the lottery means you win a baby produced by artificial means rather than gaining the right to reproduce?

Many questions...